Curse

Mohnzh · Mar 24, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I did think of one thing that the economy is short on - niches. In the early game, it was easy to find a niche. You might be a runner, you might service specific missions, power-trading, farming a specific item, etc. Now most of those niches are filled and there is very little room left for entrepeneurship. HM brought about a few more niches to be filled, as did EotN, but they filled quickly as other niches were overcrowded. That is the only downside I see right now. All the other things mentioned (gold sellers, etc.) were weathered. The economy still exists. Even if the price ranges changed, the economy is still fine and healthy. We just need new niches, which takes creativity on the part of the individual.

aapo · Mar 24, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

The economy is dead because instead of giving players unique items that require skill and coordination to get, anet gives them items that drop in a dungeon that everyone and their dog can do but with a very low drop rate.

- Or *gasp* trade with farmers of those places? "skill and coordination" made me grin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Gj anet, instead of encouraging skill you encourage grinding..

- Way to jump into conclusions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

We need HM exclusive drops from places like UW and DoA, maybe a new elite area with its own set of unique weapons/armor.

- Alright, so what when these drops are getting farmed? Boo-hoo, ANET encourages grinding instead of ... instead of ... instead of what exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

1. Most of the rarest minipets are not available via birthday presents. He's not referring to mini Gwen...he's referring to the mini Panda, etc.

- Alright, refer to section two: items that don't drop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

2. The extent that these weapons are being removed from the game (i.e. via customization, attrition of the playerbase, bans) are far exceeding the rate that they are being added to the game (if at all).

- Is there supposed to be active market for permanent advantage weapons for PvP, e.g. weapons that are priceless for anyone who plays PvP?

quickmonty · Mar 24, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Look at it this way. They increased the minimum wage (gold is easier to get by just playing the game) and the price for a Ferrari has decreased. The only one's complaining are the Ferrari dealers.

Spaced Invader · Mar 24, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I have never ever played an Online Game with RPG elements (to avoid the term MMORPG) with such a stable lead currency (gold/plat) as Guild Wars. Even more remarkable since it's almost been 3 years since its launch.

Starting with games like Diablo 2, where gold had literally no value at all, up to traditional MMORPGs like AO, DAoC, SWG or EQ2 which all headed into a *heavy* inflation over the years (or even after months).

In Guild Wars, however, the value of gold has not only been stable for almost 3 years. Actually, there has been a real deflation over the past ~12 months. Something I've really never seen in any game.
This can not only be observed by ingame prices for vanity items or Ectos, but also by the skyrocketing prices for plat from RMTs.

There are a few reasons why the whole economy works that great in GW (although there will always be some people who disagree... usually the frustrated ones):

1. This game has a LOT of gold sinks (i.e. gold isn't just shifted from player to player, while the total amount of gold in the economy is exponentially increasing, but actually vanishes into thin air), which actually give gold an inherent value.
Skills/SoCs costing 1k each.
Vanity Armors costing up to 15k per piece.
Stupid events like the lucky/unlucky title farming, where people simply "destroy" huge chuncks of plat (which surprisingly a lot of people are more than willing to do).

2. The existence of NPC merchants for Dyes and (Rare) Materials (which partly act as gold sink as well) also has a huge impact on gold being such a strong lead currency.

3. Despite all the whining, Arena Net actually does a GREAT job at banning and preventing botting (the prices for plat from RMTs going up by 500% over the past 2 years actually is evidence enough).
Sure, it's a problem nobody will ever be able to solve. But every other Online Game I've played so far (and I played quite a LOT of MMOs) was more bot-infested than GW. Especially the games without monthly fee - like GW.
And without every srub being able to ebay a million gold for 3 bucks, of course the ingame currency stays way more stable than it would otherwise.

So bash me whatever you like, but I think (and always thought) that A.Net does an exceptionally well job on GW's economy.

HawkofStorms · Mar 24, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Look, there is massive deflation. Everybody makes a TON of money now a days. Due to dungeons, quest rewards, ursan runs of the deep/urgoz/FoW/UW, it is very easy to make over 100k in gold in a week without even farming. The large amount of gold in the economy (now, relative to Factions/Phrophecies) explains why everybody seems to have 15k/chaos gloves/fissure, becuase the amount of gold has gone up and the price of those have stayed constant.
The value of everything semi-rare has also taken a plummet, due to the inscription system and over farming. No weapon has any real value today except for the one's Malice mentioned.

Malice Black · Mar 24, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

aapo - My post was poorly worded. I was merely pointing out that only the items I listed have any chance of holding any sort of value. Any of those could easily rise or fall depending on the market at the time.

aapo · Mar 24, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Look, there is massive deflation. Everybody makes a TON of money now a days. Due to dungeons, quest rewards, ursan runs of the deep/urgoz/FoW/UW, it is very easy to make over 100k in gold in a week without even farming.

- Exactly. Thanks to loot scaling, economy is no longer in hands of farmers and casual players are the winners here. Economy is in perfect shape.

Oofus · Mar 24, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Wrong. As time passes, more and more characters get their birthdays, thus increasing the supply of high-end minipets and decreasing their value.

Wrong, High-end minis aren't b-day presents

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- This one's correct.

How magnanimous of you

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Over time these will become common too, if they still drop.

non-inscribable gold crystalines don't, r7 more than likely don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- "their value either increases or it decreases". Tautology much?

"increase" or "decrese SLOWLY" as opposed to "decrease QUICKLY". Flame much?

Anyway... What economy? GW has an economy? Must have missed that somehow!

Malice Black · Mar 24, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by appo

- Exactly. Thanks to loot scaling, economy is no longer in hands of farmers and casual players are the winners here. Economy is in perfect shape.

Not really. No one benefits from not being able to sell perfectly good golds. I merched 3 golds yesterday due to the fact their req was a little on the high side. Hate merching golds. Took me months to get my first gold back in the day. Now people complain if they don't get 5 per vanq :x

enter_the_zone · Mar 24, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Wrong. As time passes, more and more characters get their birthdays, thus increasing the supply of high-end minipets and decreasing their value.

- This one's correct.

- Over time these will become common too, if they still drop.

- "their value either increases or it decreases". Tautology much?

Not to be picky, but high-end mini pets are not Birthday pets. They're usually referring to the Asian minis (panda etc) and the mini-polar bear etc.
New birthday minipets are quite expensive when they first come out, but they soon taper down to "reasonable" levels.

And doh! Beaten to it already

Painbringer · Mar 24, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Gold and Green values have dropped since there are so many attainable rare skins. Example would be Dungeons, anyone can obtain them for themselves. All dungeons have instant rez and if you fail it gives you get 450 or more chances to kill the final boss and get that chance at a rare item. Change the dungeons to mission like status and prices will go up. You can run one dungeon in 8-10 minutes or so doing this one over and over and over nets you some coin. Z-chest is another example of deflating the market. Anyone can earn points for a chance of rarity. Personally they should have had there own (red text) skins. Give them difference to the true ultra rare gold items. Oh well sell while you can.

Feathered · Mar 24, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

the economy is in fine shape IMO you still have the very rich people but those are the people that spend a lot of their time playing and enjoy getting that money. and yes everybody has 15k armor but just from faction farming with hero's you can make 15k in one hundred runs and they take what 1-2 mins each? that isn't too bad for sitting there and clicking for a bit when not farming or partying. and hey your maxing a title too.

As for the Ecto and what ever other things you horde they will always be at a fairly low price because its not like the old days where alot of people wanted for but there wernt so many farming builds out there. the loot scaling helps with that a little bit by stabilizing the drop rate of ecto and shards a little.

It seriously comes down to what the people that play want to spend money on as well as what people know how to farm. and where they farm I know that I can personaly net around 15-20K in 20 mins on some places depending on drops and what builds I use. Right now i have 3 15k sets on my sin with a 1.5k set with 4 pairs of q8 daggers for my sin as well. then about 2 or 3 15k sets on every other class i have (acct is over 3000 hours old).yet i have 5K on my account right now and that is all it has been for about the past month. because I spend it on what ever I feel like.

Just spend your money on what you want and then the econ will seem all good to you =D

sry for the bad spelling I'm not too good at it.

Kusandaa · Mar 24, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMullen

The main problem I hear about is stupidly priced items not being stupidly priced anymore. Also as there's more and more complaints about the economy being screwed I find I'm getting more and more cash simply by playing through the missions and doing quests.

I think people just like jumping on the "ZOMG TEH ECONOMY IS WEL SCRUWED!" bandwagon.

QFT.

People whine when you take something that makes them better in the eyes of others. That's partially why people are getting so worked up on this; a lot skins are now fairly available in the economy and the players lose the elitist feelings...

The rest just have a harder time selling stuff, and I can't really argue with this.

The weirdest is that I have never made money so fast despite the economy complaints O_o.

360° · Mar 24, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

The Guild Wars what?

Jetdoc · Mar 24, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Is there supposed to be active market for permanent advantage weapons for PvP, e.g. weapons that are priceless for anyone who plays PvP?

The problem is that 95% of these weapons will never make their way into PvP, because to utilize them to their fullest extent they would need to be customized (which even the most die hard PvPer would pause at doing, given their massive value). Generally, a customized weapon will outperform a non-customized "super rare" item every day of the week (and twice on Sundays), so using one in PvP can actually "gimp" you.

Malice Black · Mar 24, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

The problem is that 95% of these weapons will never make their way into PvP, because to utilize them to their fullest extent they would need to be customized (which even the most die hard PvPer would pause at doing, given their massive value). Generally, a customized weapon will outperform a non-customized "super rare" item every day of the week (and twice on Sundays), so using one in PvP can actually "gimp" you.

Heh I customize everything I plan on keeping. It's a shame most people don't.

Jetdoc · Mar 24, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Heh I customize everything I plan on keeping. It's a shame most people don't.

I agree. I don't think I own an uncustomized weapon, other than my HoD (which I routinely switch between my spellcasting characters).

romeus petrus · Mar 24, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Alright, so what when these drops are getting farmed? Boo-hoo, ANET encourages grinding instead of ... instead of ... instead of what exactly?

And how exactly do you think people would farm something that drops from the end chest in UW in HM?

If you think that is farmable, it is either your not telling the truth, or you've never made it to the end chest in UW HM.

Same applies to end chests in most other elites btw, just to make it simple for your simple brain.

Snow Bunny · Mar 24, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

The economy is dead because instead of giving players unique items that require skill and coordination to get, anet gives them items that drop in a dungeon that everyone and their dog can do but with a very low drop rate.

Gj anet, instead of encouraging skill you encourage grinding..

We need HM exclusive drops from places like UW and DoA, maybe a new elite area with its own set of unique weapons/armor.

My entire point is that the economy's not dead.

My view isn't black and white. For people just starting, sure, it may be difficult. But for the majority of players, who have been playing for a while, it's quite apparently not that difficult.

romeus petrus · Mar 24, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

My entire point is that the economy's not dead.

My view isn't black and white. For people just starting, sure, it may be difficult. But for the majority of players, who have been playing for a while, it's quite apparently not that difficult.

Been playing for almost 3 years, check out my posts on our guild's website for confirmation of dates. This is the worst shape the economy has ever been in.